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Who Will Speak For You?
Edward L. Daley
February 22, 2005
A few weeks ago I was watching a program on C-Span pertaining to the impact of foreign court opinions upon the U.S. justice system. The primary participants in the discussion were Supreme Court Justices Antonin Scalia and Stephen Breyer, and the event took place at the American University Law School in Washington D.C.
rtsp://video.c-span.org/archive/sc/sc011305_scalia.rm
The debate revolved around questions asked by a moderator named Professor Norman Dorsen, and the first multi-part question asked was, "When we talk about the use of foreign court decisions in U.S. Constitutional cases, what body of foreign law are we talking about? Are we limiting this to foreign constitutional law? What about cases involving international law, such as the interpretation of treaties, including treaties to which the U.S. is a party? When we talk about the use of foreign court decisions in U.S. law, do we mean them to be authority, or persuasive, or rhetorical? If, for example, foreign court decisions are not understood to be precedent in U.S. Constitutional cases, are they nevertheless able to strengthen the sense that U.S. law assures a common moral and legal framework with the rest of the world? If this is so, is that in order to strengthen the legitimacy of a decision within the U.S., or to strengthen a decision's legitimacy in the rest of the world?"
Some question, huh? I don't think I'd be comfortable trying to answer it all in one fell swoop, and apparently neither did the two justices. Justice Scalia began his reply by stating that most of the parts of it should be posed to Justice Breyer, simply because Scalia does not use foreign law in the interpretation of the U.S. Constitution.
He stated that he will use it when interpreting a treaty, because treaties are based upon a mutual understanding of the law by the signatories thereof. That seemed like a no-brainer to me, and the point was not argued by Breyer.
Scalia went on to say that, aside from that, he refuses to use foreign decisions in Constitutional law. He argued that some justices refer to foreign law because they want to feel assured that we have the same "moral and legal framework as the rest of the world." He then pointed out, quite matter-of-factly, that we don't have the same moral and legal framework, and we never have.
He continued by referring to the Federalist Papers, saying that they are full of statements which make it clear that our founding fathers had little respect for the laws of European countries in that day and age, citing a passage by James Madison to that effect. He then asked the rhetorical question, should we be willing to change our laws based upon the fact that many of them are not in step with the vast majority of foreign law decisions, mentioning the issues of abortion on demand, and the exclusionary rule relative to 'Miranda' as examples.
http://www.robertslaw.org/4thamend.htm
He went on to ask the question, why haven't we changed these laws if the court feels we should use foreign law... or do we just use foreign law selectively, whenever it agrees with what an individual justice would like a particular case to say? He then asked what the criterion is for citing foreign law, if doing so is not meant to be authoritative.
Justice Breyer responded by saying, among other things, that law emerges from conversations among law practitioners, law students, and academics. He recounted an event at which he was first confronted with the question of whether or not foreign law decisions should be considered by U.S. courts. He described a past seminar he'd attended with various judges and law makers wherein a Congressman had remarked that he thought it was a terrible idea to use foreign law in U.S. court decisions.
Breyer reflected that he'd told the Congressman "Of course foreign law doesn't bind us in Constitutional law. Of course not." But, he added, these [foreign justices] are human beings who often have problems which are similar to our own.
He mentioned that the societies about which these foreign decisions are concerned, are becoming more and more democratic, and that in a case which is similar to one he might face as a Supreme Court Justice, "why don't I read what he says, if it's similar enough?" Apparently the Congressman he was speaking to at the time said fine, go ahead and read it, just don't cite it in your legal opinion.
Breyer's response to this remark had been that since foreign courts cite our Supreme Court's findings in their decisions, he didn't see anything wrong with citing theirs in his. He added that by doing so, we might actually lend credibility to their laws, or as he put it, "give them a leg up." The Congressman's response was that Justice Breyer should simply write them a letter of approval instead, if he felt that way.
At that point, Breyer seemed to stall, relating that the Congressman had "made a point", and then failing to explain why he felt that position wasn't essentially correct. He went on to refer to Justice Scalia's implication that we do not understand enough about any particular foreign decision to cite it responsibly, asking, "how do we know we cite both sides" of an argument in foreign law cases? "How do we know we look for everything?" His answer to both of those questions was that such problems arise in every sort of citation. "A judge can do what he's supposed to do, or not," he continued, "and we hope they do what they're supposed to do."
This is where he lost me, and, apparently, where he lost Justice Scalia as well. After all, the fact that American justices face decisions without looking at every possible viewpoint available in the written law, has nothing to do with the fact that foreign law systems are often completely alien to our own. It's not a question of whether or not we are able to see every bit of available information, but rather that the systems by which other countries arrive at legal decisions are usually not very similar to ours. Also, as Scalia pointed out, other legal systems may only have adopted part of a law that has originated in the U.S. (e.g. Miranda), and ignored other parts (e.g. the exclusionary rule) that are just as important to the fundamental principle underlying that law.
I found it interesting that Justice Breyer first announced that foreign law is "of course" not binding in Constitutional law, yet followed up that point by giving reasons, ostensibly, why it should be.
Justice Scalia seemed just as confused as I was by certain points that Breyer had made, beginning his retort by declaring, "I don't know what it means to express confidence that judges will do what they ought to do, after having read the foreign law. My problem is that I don't know what they ought to do. What is it that they ought to do? You have to ask yourselves, why is it that foreign law would be relevant to what an American judge does when he interprets - INTERPRETS - not writes [the law]... it [foreign law] is very useful in devising a Constitution, but why is it useful in interpreting one?"
Scalia then explained his basic theory as it relates to the interpretation of the Constitution, saying that he tries to understand what it means, and what society understood it to mean when it was adopted, adding that his philosophy used to be orthodoxy prior to the 1940s. He stated that foreign law is irrelevant to anyone who embraces that philosophy, with the exception of old English law, because of the fact that many of our legal definitions were taken from that to begin with.
He went on to relate two other approaches to interpreting the Constitution. The first, he explained, was the notion that the Constitution doesn't mean what it meant when it was first ratified, but that it changes from era to era to conform to, as Scalia then quoted, "the evolving standards of decency that mark the progress of a maturing society." - Troy v. Dulles, 356 U.S. 86, 101
At that point he mentioned that he detests that phrase, arguing that societies don't necessarily mature, and that "sometimes they rot." However, he opined, even if you buy into that theory, you are still primarily concerned with the standards of decency of Americans, not foreigners, and that the only way a person would ever be willing to accept the standards of other countries as being applicable to our standards, is if that individual espoused a third way of interpreting the Constitution.
That third philosophical approach, Scalia continued, says "I am not looking for the evolving standards of decency of American society, I'm looking for what is the best answer in my mind, as an intelligent judge. And for that purpose, I look to other intelligent people, and I talk sometimes about conversations with judges, and lawyers, and law students. Do you [the law students in the audience] think you're representative of American society? Do you not realize you are a small, cream at the top, and that your views on innumerable things are not the views of America at large? And doesn't it seem somewhat arrogant of you to say I can make up what the moral values of America should be on all sorts of issues?"
The whole time he was saying this, Breyer looked as if he'd just swallowed a prune pit, since he clearly understood (as did I, and probably everyone else watching) that Scalia had just implied he was arrogant. Once Justice Scalia had concluded by saying that he did not wish to undertake the responsibility of deciding what is moral and what isn't for all of society, Justice Breyer commented, "I think that's pretty good."
"It's really because I think, and I think many judges think, that your own moral views are not the answer, that people look other places for trying to find out - how to find answers," he added. Yet once again his statement didn't have any bearing upon the issue raised. The question isn't whether one should look for answers as to what may be the morally right thing to do, but rather, where it is they're looking!
Breyer pointed out that there is "nothing in 'Blackstone', 'Bracton' or even 'King Arthur', that says that cruel and unusual punishment - to determine that - you cannot look, except to England, or except to the United States... So, there's nothing barring me" This statement is a dead giveaway that Breyer believes it is reasonable to define morality in America based upon what other countries think, or upon what members of the legal profession think. Does it really need to be written that American moral issues should be decided by the American citizenry? Isn't that just plain common sense?
http://www.agh-attorneys.com/4_william_blackstone.htm
http://culaw2.creighton.edu/rarebooks/display1/bracton's.htm
http://www.gongfa.com/common%20lawbuliedianbaike.htm
Apparently Justice Breyer doesn't think so. Even though he goes to the trouble of saying once again that he doesn't look to himself to determine the answers to moral questions within the law, the undercurrent running throughout his remarks is that he's willing to let someone other than the American people make the call.
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